“The role of women in Indonesian Islam is major”

The Cross : How would you describe the uniqueness of Indonesian Islam?

Ulil Abshar Abdalla: Indonesian Islam is one of the most interesting Islams to study in the Islamic world today, because here we are experiencing a social, political and intellectual dynamic that is truly unique in many ways. Since the end of political reforms in the early 2000s, we have experienced a freedom of thought that allows us, in the Muslim intellectual sphere, to enrich the different interpretations of Islam. This is not the case in Pakistan, for example, where people are afraid to express themselves on Islam for fear of blasphemy.

Such a poisonous atmosphere existed in Indonesia not so long ago?

UAA: Indeed, these fears existed here as well in the 2010s, when several Islamic groups spread rumors that proposing interpretations different from original Islam was blasphemous. These tendencies have completely disappeared today. One of the most radical groups, Jemaah Islamiyah (Indonesian Islamist armed organization founded in 1993, Editor’s note)has decided to dissolve its organization two months ago. Fundamentalism has practically disappeared in Indonesia.

Would you say that Indonesian Islam is now peaceful and serene?

UAA: We live a tolerant Islam, but that does not mean that there are no problems. I am concerned to see that the quality of public debate within Islam itself continues to decline. It is not as vibrant as it was twenty-five years ago because of the emergence of digital technologies and social networks. The debates take place on many platforms that are of poor quality, very superficial. However, I still insist on the fact that there are still solid reflections on religion and interreligious dialogue, notably thanks to the indispensable contribution of women.

Precisely, what is their role within the Muslim intellectual sphere?

UAA: The role of women in Indonesian Islam is major. Beyond their intense social activity, they are bubbling with ideas when it comes to proposing new interpretations of the Quran and Islam. In other countries women are consumers of religion but do not create new ideas. We are fortunate in Indonesia to have many women ulama (theologians, editor’s note) very active in religious and intellectual circles, who carry out in-depth exegesis of the Koran.

I was in Pakistan a few days ago and visited several madrasas, some of which are run by Afghan Taliban. I spoke with ulama and when I told them that we have a National Congress of Women Ulama (Kupi) in Indonesia, they opened their eyes wide. A reality that is impossible for them at the moment.

Is this strong influence of women in Islam easily accepted?

UAA: This space open to intellectual women is not so easy to manage, indeed. There is still resistance from some very traditional religious tendencies, but the fact is that this movement of women ulama has existed for five years. The Kupi now has more than 500 female members. They were educated in madrasas, Koranic schools, and later at university. They have a very solid education. However, the possibility for them to lead prayer remains controversial.

You were in favor of it though. Why did you change your mind?

UAA: Yes, I used to be in favor of women being allowed to lead prayers. In my opinion, it is not so important for them to become imams and lead prayers. I used to think it was very important, but I have changed my mind. I think the priority at the moment is to see women train and take a major place in the Muslim intellectual space. They already manage dozens of madrasas, train girls who will become future ulama. This is a priority for me. They have a different approach and vision of reading the Scriptures. They have their own inner life, their own unique life experience, and this is what is important as a contribution for the future. The future will tell us whether they will be able to become imams.

What do you see as the major challenges for Indonesian Islam?

UAA: Religious freedoms must be the priority, freedom to practice for all religions. We are the majority as Muslims and we have a greater responsibility to guarantee these freedoms, because there are still problems. Especially with regard to Protestants who live in the heart of Muslim neighborhoods and who organize gatherings in their homes or apartments. They pray, they sing, and the Muslim neighbors experience it as a provocation. But we must accept them by emphasizing dialogue.

The other challenge, I think, is the health of democracy in Indonesia. The reform spirit of the 2000s is slowly fading. The democratic honeymoon is slowly fading. Democracy is still alive and well in Indonesia, with free elections, a free press, religious freedoms and political parties, but a decline in the democratic level can endanger religious serenity. Our politicians must maintain good democratic and religious health in Indonesia.