“We must have the courage to boycott this edition” says Mgr Gollnisch

L’Œuvre d’Orient has been mobilizing for several years against the conflict between Nagorno-Karabakh and Azerbaijan. What is happening in this region?

Bishop Gollnisch: In September 2023, 120,000 Armenians were extremely brutally expelled from the land of Nagorno-Karabakh, which they had inhabited for over three thousand years. This land was given by Stalin to Azerbaijan. When the USSR fell in 1991, Nagorno-Karabakh proclaimed its independence, like its Armenian and Azerbaijani neighbors, although the international community did not recognize it.

This land and its landscape are marked by Armenian culture: churches, crosses and cemeteries are Armenian. However, the Armenians are not just any people, they are the people of the 1915 genocide, where nearly 1.5 million Armenians were murdered. We believe that a people who have suffered such a genocide have the right, after that, in what remains of their land, to live in peace.

This right is denied to him. Supported by Turkey, which still does not recognize the 1915 genocide, Azerbaijan relaunched the war against Nagorno-Karabakh in 2020 and has since carried out real ethnic cleansing. The streets are renamed with Turkish names, churches and cemeteries destroyed… every Armenian trace is erased.

Why ask to censor this COP29?

The spirit of the genocide continues in these acts, the Azerbaijani authorities spoke of the Armenians as “insects to be crushed”. We cannot accept that this country which has committed such acts, which – moreover – is a dictatorial country, champion of corruption, which lives thanks to the sale of oil and gas, claims to host an international meeting devoted to environmental rights , and which will be all to the glory of its president Aliyev. Climate issues, which are part of human rights, are not separable from the rest of these rights. We wouldn’t imagine a Conference of the Parties in Afghanistan or Iran… We shouldn’t have one in Azerbaijan.

On November 5, L’Oeuvre d’Orient organized a rally in Paris against this COP. On this occasion, you asked that the question of ethics be posed to Azerbaijani leaders. Thinking about ethics in times of war, isn’t that a little naive?

You will note that Raphaël Glucksmann and François-Xavier Bellamy, both MEPs present at this gathering, agreed with this.

In international relations, military and economic problems are first taken into consideration. Many diplomats believe that this question of ethics is not serious. But ethics is the defense of the human person. Diplomacy that does not take into account the rights and dignity of people becomes incomprehensible and goes around in circles. It is fine to say that French diplomacy defends the “interests of France”, but these interests are not just the number of tanks we sell, they are also the interests of humans.

Ethics are not applicable everywhere, at all times, but diplomacy cannot systematically escape them. We must have the courage to put ethics back at the center, which means refusing to go to this COP.

After your intervention, Ara Toranian, president of the CCAF (Coordinating Council of Armenian Organizations in France) deplored the loss of Russian support for Armenia. Was it ethical to be satisfied with the support of a dictatorship?

I totally condemn, for these same ethical reasons, Russia’s aggression against Ukraine. But it is not because a country is open to criticism on many points that it should be prevented from doing the good it can. But Russia was the only country that could and should protect the Armenians. She ultimately remained armed, even though a word would have been enough for Azerbaijan not to dare attack Nagorno-Karabakh. Russia abandoned the Armenians for base political reasons related to oil and gas. It is a rogue state.

Does the support of the Vatican seem sufficient to you on this issue?

The Vatican’s position falls short of what is needed. Of course, faithful to its tradition of balance, the diplomacy of the Holy See tries to maintain contacts with the different parties, because this serves diplomatic mediations. In the Ukraine-Russia war, this is what allows the Vatican to repatriate Ukrainian children kidnapped in Russia. But the life of the Church is not all about diplomacy. Therefore, I believe that the situation in Nagorno-Karabakh has not been sufficiently discussed. I am also surprised, given the degree of corruption in the country, that money from Azerbaijan is received at the Vatican to restore a catacomb.

And French support?

Although there is no European convergence, Emmanuel Macron has provided strong support, particularly military support, to Armenia. France did what it could. On the other hand, I regret and condemn that a minister wanted to go to Baku for the COP (Agnès Pannier-Runacher, Minister of Ecological Transition, finally gave up going there, for other reasons, Editor’s note). We have an ambassador there, that was enough.