“Within Emmaüs, we were already very detached from the figure of Abbé Pierre”

What is Emmaus International’s position following the revelations?

We unanimously condemn this sexual violence. At the leadership of the movement, we have never had any doubt about the reality of the facts and their seriousness.

The past year has been rich in commemorations around the figure of Abbé Pierre (release of the film Abbé Pierre, a life of struggle by Frédéric Tellier in November 2023, the 70th anniversary of Abbé Pierre’s appeal on February 1, 2024…). Why not disclose these accusations sooner?

When we learned of the testimony of a victim in June 2023, the film on the life of Abbé Pierre had already been filmed and had even been presented in Cannes a month earlier. Not being a producer of this film, the Emmaüs movement had no control over its release. Then, after meeting the person in September 2023, we took the time to verify the facts and collect testimonies from those close to Abbé Pierre. It took several months. Then, we felt that it was too serious, too important, too confirmed for us not to dig a little deeper. And that’s when we decided to call on an outside firm to help us listen to potential victims, to pull the thread to understand whether we were dealing with an isolated fact or several facts. Before this report, we were in the logic of wanting to preserve the memory of a man, whose accusation against him was isolated. We were keen not to trigger a wave of media opinion without having taken the time to do things seriously.

Others criticize you for making these facts public. What do you answer them?

It was a request from the first victim: she wanted to be believed and heard. We had a duty to her. Above all, she wanted other victims to benefit from the same visibility. Finally, our association campaigns against sexist and sexual violence. If we had protected Abbé Pierre, we would be going against our values. It was therefore important for us to affirm it politically.

Wasn’t anyone at Emmaus aware of this?

We are not saying that no one knew. Victims have said they have questioned members of Emmaüs, this is a reality. Indeed, given the magnitude of the facts and their period, we have no doubt: the facts could not have been completely hidden from start to finish. On the other hand, we don’t know who knew, who knew what and what their place was in the organization. To date, we have no trace of an official questioning of the movement’s authorities on this subject or of a debate in the board of directors… Perhaps it existed, I am not excluding anything to the point where we in sum. But we, at our level, do not have this information. We who are responsible today, we did not know.

However, Abbé Pierre had been sidelined and taken to a psychiatric clinic in Switzerland in 1957-1958. Did you know the reasons?

When I arrived at Emmaüs, I was told that he had had behavioral and moral problems. Having a sex life while being a priest was a scandal in the context of the time. This sidelining has always seemed coherent to me. I did not question this vision, since the violence was completely ignored.

The question of the place of the image of Abbé Pierre within the movement arises today. Are you going to give a directive to the communities?

Being a group movement, we do not, in essence, have authority over our communities. Conversely, there was no order previously given regarding the display of the image of Abbé Pierre. This decision has always been free within the groups. Obviously, we alerted them several times. We must be aware that displaying the portrait of Abbé Pierre in a public space is displaying the portrait of a sexual attacker. It can be hard and shocking for those exposed to it.

Abbé Pierre still has a strong symbolic dimension. The movement reflects society. A community is alive: it brings together people with different life paths and different sufferings. One member notably told me that the portrait of Abbot Pierre of his community had been made by a companion, who died six months ago. Removing this portrait is painful for the other companions who lived with him for decades.

Can the movement continue without the image of Abbé Pierre?

We know what we owe to Abbé Pierre: his words and his commitment remain relevant. He’s a figure of inspiration that’s collapsing. But the Emmaus movement has been living its life independently for a very long time, developing its struggles, while maintaining this meaningful reference for us. Within the movement, we were already very detached from the figure of Abbé Pierre.

What will remain of his memory?

We can no longer honor the image of Abbé Pierre as we did before. We have decided to close his place of memory in Esteville (Seine-Maritime). It will be necessary to promote his journey while integrating the dimension of the violence committed. We cannot deny them, it is part of his legacy. But we need time to think about how we proceed so as not to offend anyone and remain true to our values..